Now you've misquoted me. Actual quote[1] is: "This appears to be an outright fabrication."
To quote yourself[2], "The honest thing to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken and apologize for the false accusation."
Are you going to do that for me now?
I don't expect you to, because I don't think you are being dishonest. I think you are earnestly trying to untangle the facts from two parties for whom you have no bias one way or the other, which is commendable.
Like you, I am an individual attempting to paint an accurate picture of reality for my readers.
Anthropic, on the other hand, is not an individual nor trying to be accurate. They are doing exactly as they are supposed to: maximizing value for shareholders. To do this, they need to make this rewrite appear successful, so they need to retcon this idea that they were doing good engineering practices in their zig codebase the whole time, including fuzzing, even though that is not the case.
> What Kelley can't do is say, "It's an outright fabrication that Sumner does X today," based on an observation from nine months ago.
I think it's clear that I presented it as a hypothetical dialog, not something you literally said. But I agree that the fairer way to present it would be to say, "Kelley can't say 'It appears to be an outright fabrication'," to match the original language in your blog post.
> I think you are earnestly trying to untangle the facts from two parties for whom you have no bias one way or the other, which is commendable.
Honestly, my bias is to support Zig. I personally like the Zig project and you as a person (this blog post notwithstanding) enough that I've contributed a small monthly financial amount for the last 2.5 years. You've never sucked up all my code and then tried to sell it back to me.
So, despite the fact that I have many reasons to favor you and Zig over Sumner and Anthropic, when I read both blog posts, the impression I walk away with is that your blog post is needlessly critical of Sumner as a person and that you made unsubstantiated accusations against him.
> To do this, they need to make this rewrite appear successful, so they need to retcon this idea that they were doing good engineering practices in their zig codebase the whole time, including fuzzing, even though that is not the case.
I don't get that from their blog post.
Both you and Loris seem to be saying that Sumner's "We've been fuzzing Bun" claim implies to everyone that they've been fuzzing it for a long time as much as they possibly can, but I think it just means what it says. They've been fuzzing it some, and some bugs fell out of it, not that they fuzzed it perfectly or followed every software engineering practice perfectly.
Dude just stop. This has been embarrassing and damaging enough to your reputation, you should just give it a rest for now. Your friends have made you self-aware enough to realize you have unprocessed emotions about this — process them. Best to get out of the comment section, and your head. The saying is if you’re explaining you’re losing. I’m not a fan of Bun or Jarred but of your Zig work. Stick to that, it’s where you serve the community best. In the future, just present the verifiable facts and you’ll be okay.
1. he's not a billionaire in large part due to giving away large amounts of wealth
2. would you rather allow a small number of people 10x more wealthy than Mitchell dictate our laws and culture, or would you prefer a more democratic approach?
If you decide to try this, feel free to share your progress and struggles on IRC, ziggit, or ZSF zulip. Plenty of people would be interested in helping out.
thanks! I have done a bit of work on Raku + Polars (ie the Pandas rewrite in Rust). This has been hampered by Rust lack of a binary FFI - so it has ended up running into unsafe keyhole surgery territory. My current feel is that we would need to move down to Apache Arrow and build a bunch of FFI / MOARMVM level scaffolding to keep it fast. Maybe take a look at COW at the same time.
First I was naive to believe I could make a new programming language, then I was naive to believe it would be anything but a toy project, then I was naive to believe that we could make our own backends for debug mode, now I'm naive to believe that we can add optimizations to the pipeline. It's getting old. Just because you lack the creativity, willpower, and work ethic to accomplish something, doesn't mean I do.
I admire your creativity, willpower, and work ethic, and a few other things about you, but I don't admire reactionary garbage like this ... I'm actually rather shocked by it and how it leans heavily on the strawman "I'm naive to believe that we can add optimizations to the pipeline" which is not the statement that was made, but I will maintain my high regard for you and your efforts despite it ... no human is perfect. I have a lengthy list of technical brilliancies in Zig that I admire that I won't bore you with but do often bore others with.
At least you acknowledge that I am correct about your belief, whereas someone else said I was exactly wrong.
As for me, while I had a successful software development career spanning 6 decades, received a mention in a two-digit RFC, and hold several networking patents, my best years are far behind me, but even in my heyday I couldn't hold a candle to your creativity, willpower, work ethic, or productivity ... but how is that at all relevant?
And that is grossly dishonest ... my original comment said nothing about what is true for me, and I never assumed (or assume) that what is true of me is true of others. In fact the whole point of my comment that you are responding to here is that I don't think that what is true of me is true of you--you are clearly better at these things than I. You are just being pointlessly and ungraciously belligerent. It's a hell of a way to treat consumers and admirers.
> zsf team is perfectly capable of implementing compiler optimizations.
Again with that strawman. The issue was about duplicating the years of effort put into LLVM. No doubt with ENOUGH effort that can be duplicated--logic dictates that ... but then it has to be continuously tracked. And when I said "recreate comparable", there is of course an implied time scale.
You're all in a huff because I used the word "naive". But then you made an argument that your naivety gets the damn thing done anyway because of will power, work ethic, etc. I grant that it's a good argument with results to prove it.
Enough ... I won't be provoked into responding again.
I think you are overestimating the impact of the long tail of compiler optimizations. You don't need to reverse-engineer every microarchitecture under the sun and optimize for their specific quirks like LLVM does to have useful code generation.
Just doing the basics goes a long way with a tiny fraction of the effort. Yes it will leave some percent on the table but this is hardly the end of the world. With their own compiler they have full control over the entire chain and might be able to make up for that with their own language-specific optimizations.
Go has a custom compiler, too, it's not as good as LLVM, so what?
You know, I used to be annoyed by all your consistently shitty remarks in any zig related HN thread, but these days, it's refreshing to have an unpleasant interaction with a human.
Sincerely, thanks for all your hand-written hatred.
To quote yourself[2], "The honest thing to do is acknowledge that you were mistaken and apologize for the false accusation."
Are you going to do that for me now?
I don't expect you to, because I don't think you are being dishonest. I think you are earnestly trying to untangle the facts from two parties for whom you have no bias one way or the other, which is commendable.
Like you, I am an individual attempting to paint an accurate picture of reality for my readers.
Anthropic, on the other hand, is not an individual nor trying to be accurate. They are doing exactly as they are supposed to: maximizing value for shareholders. To do this, they need to make this rewrite appear successful, so they need to retcon this idea that they were doing good engineering practices in their zig codebase the whole time, including fuzzing, even though that is not the case.
[1]: https://github.com/andrewrk/andrewkelley.me/blob/c39f868e578...
[2]: https://mastodon.social/@michael@m.mtlynch.io/11689618811296...