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We cant even verify if these fields are real though. It is an ordered mythology for making predictions that work. If I have a machine that can reproduce the footprints of an animal no one has ever seen, I have not discovered that animal. (This is personally a more powerful analogy than saying "the map is not the territory" which gets at the same point.)

>We cant even verify if these fields are real though

We can perform casual experiments that are falsifiable against them. This is the scientific definition of real within a probabilistic framework.


Sure. Just making sure people understand that the "scientific definition of real" is based on a metaphysical assumption that real = works. It is very hard to remember this since philosophy of science is not taught in school.

Did you verify that we can't verify?

I think so. Are you familiar with epistemology and how assumptions can be formally justified?

Are you familiar with fallibilism? Aristotle justified geocentrism too. Who's to say your justification is correct for real this time?

Cmd+space, cmd+1 to search apps only

> Don't post generated text or AI-edited text. HN is for conversation between humans.

it's an AI comment

yes galileo was forced to recant heliocentricism to the roman catholic church, because they had gone insane.

also consider the dogmatic commitment that scientism has to methodological naturalism. this is the religious spirit of science today


I’ll never understand how GEB was using math, art, and music to explain consciousness (and Hofstadter himself still thinks no one understood it), but Nagel and Newman did a great job explaining why logic as a mechanical thing has only a tenuous relationship to concepts we understand, and that helped me crack at least a little bit of the mystery I was after when giving up on GEB.


I have not read GEB but I thought his second book, I am a Strange Loop, did a pretty good job of connecting the idea of self referential loops (like in godels proof) to consciousness and art and such.


I am a Strange Loop is basically GEB but written properly instead of being a random collation of ideas.

Unrusprisingly, since many years went by. But I still love the quirkiness of GEB

(Also, he has other books between the two, I deeply enjoyed Le Ton Beau de Marot, about translations)


Thanks for the suggestions. Just checked out some of Le Ton Beau de Marot, will most likely read the rest.

Actually, I was recently wondering whether poems can be interpreted as "efficient" computer programs. Words in a sentence/essay just connect different objects in space and time (syntactically and semantically) to form some concept, kind of like a program. A poem just uses higher order abstractions (imagery) to express the same concepts in fewer words.

So this book should be great!


> I’ll never understand how GEB was using math, art, and music to explain consciousness

As Flannery O'Connor wrote, "The result of the proper study of a novel should be contemplation of the mystery embodied in it, but this is a contemplation of the mystery in the whole work and not or some proposition or paraphrase. It is not the tracking down of an expressible moral or a statement about life." We don't read literature with the hopes of a book laying out a precise thesis and incontrovertibly demonstrating it.

If you come into GEB expecting a scientific explanation of consciousness (like I did, when I first read it) you walk away confused and maybe disappointed. Hofstadter observed something transcendentally beautiful about self-reference and had a spiritual or religious revelation that, for him, related it to consciousness, and he attempted to convey that beauty and spiritual revelation in - appropriately self-referentially - a book that embodied it. You're meant to appreciate it in your heart and soul, not (just) in your mind. It's literature, not science.


Thanks, that's a fantastic quote that gets at the heart of how to appreciate GEB.


any intersection with val.town use cases?


allowing functions to treat nil arguments as empty versions of their expected types


For example:

(cons some-value my-list)

If my-list is nil, then the above expression will result in a list containing only the element some-value. Otherwise it will be a list starting with some-value followed by any other values that have been previously in my-list.


i would love to see a version of this for the antikythera


have you written about this anywhere, or hosting any examples?


You might find Functional Programming in C++ by Ivan Cukic relevant.


Not yet, I might one day.


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